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Bernard Westerveld and Stefan Jetchick at the 2009 National March For Life
1) S. Jetchick (2009-Sept-05)
2) S. Jetchick (2009-Sept-07)
3) B. Westerveld (2009-Sept-08-1)
4) S. Jetchick (2009-Sept-08)
5) B. Westerveld (2009-Sept-08-2)
6) S. Jetchick (2009-Sept-09)
7) B. Westerveld (2009-Sept-09)
8) S. Jetchick (2009-Sept-10-1)
9) S. Jetchick (2009-Sept-10-2)
-----Original Message----- From: Stefan Jetchick Sent: 5 septembre 2009 10:23 To: Westerveld, Pasteur Bernard Subject: Draft of modifications on www.semainedelavie.ca Hi Ben, I've made the changes to the web site (removing the Life Conference for this year, adding the letters to the Bishops, Police, Mayor, as well as a Press Release, and the invitation to the debate). Please tell me if there are other changes to be made. (I haven't sent out the Press Release or the letters, other than the one to the Mayor. Also, there is no invitation for non-Catholic pastors yet. Should I just copy-paste the one from last year?) In Christ, Stefan
-----Original Message----- From: Stefan Jetchick Sent: 7 septembre 2009 11:59 To: Westerveld, Pasteur Bernard Subject: Earth calling Ben, come in Ben! Hi Pastor Bernard, Are you still there? We have to send out the Press Release and associated letters (Police, Cardinal Ouellet, maybe also Mayor since I think that woman might decide to back out of giving it to him personally). I changed the web site again, and hopefully improved the letter to Cardinal Ouellet and to the Police. (Check them out) I think we should mail this out tomorrow. See the Press Release for links to all relevant texts: Press Release Apart from the debate, your approval should be very easy to obtain (and the debate requires only your non-veto). In Christ, Stefan
-----Original Message----- From: Bernard Westerveld Sent: 8 septembre 2009 08:36 To: Stéfan Jetchick Subject: RE: Earth calling Ben, come in Ben! Sorry Stéfan, I've spent the weekend with out email. I'll have to look at this later today, maybe this evening. I have meetings most of the day. Ben
-----Original Message----- From: Stefan Jetchick Sent: 8 septembre 2009 10:05 To: Bernard Westerveld Subject: Yes, God is great! Ben is still alive! Hi Pastor Bernard, >> Sorry Stefan, I've spent the weekend without email. Wonderful! That's much better than being in the Intensive Care Unit because you had an accident! I was starting to worry! >> I'll have to look at this later today, maybe this evening. OK, I'll wait. Once again, I think the Press Release is a good start, because it links to all other texts: Press Release Apart from the debate, your approval should be very easy to obtain (and the debate requires only your non-veto, and even then only your non-veto for the first occurence of such a debate, and such a debate will never happen, in my opinion. It's just a neat trick to show the world we are the good guys, and they are the ones afraid of the truth). (Yes, I know the Press Release has a "Man Bites Dog" title, but remember, this is what the media craves, and the more TV cameras there are on Oct. 4th, the safer we'll be! None of the other texts have things like that in them.) Cheers, Stefan
-----Original Message----- From: Bernard Westerveld Sent: 8 septembre 2009 22:25 To: Stéfan Jetchick Subject: RE: Earth calling Ben, come in Ben! Allo, Stéfan. hey, we have a problem here. You're putting documents on the Semaine de la vie website with my name on them, and I have not even approved them. You need to remove the Press Release, the letter to Ouellet the lettre to Labeaume the email to the police and all references to the debate I'm sorry, Stefan, but I cannot approve this forum of debate. I'm opposed to the principal of having a debate without invoking religious convictions or beliefs. I cannot simply stand by and not veto. I veto the debate as part of the Life Chain in Quebec City. You are certainly free to offer this debate via your own website. However, there must be no connection with the Semaine de la vie website. Also, you may not distribute flyers about this debate during the Life Chain, neither the mini-chains nor the Life Chain on October 4th. I still need some time to reflect on a few more details, particularly the letter to Ouellet and the Press Release. With respect to the debate, I refuse all association with the Life Chain. Thanks for your comprehension. Ben
-----Original Message----- From: Stefan Jetchick Sent: 9 septembre 2009 08:03 To: Bernard Westerveld Subject: Ben needs some sleep? Hi Ben, >> You're putting documents on the Semaine de la vie website with >> my name on them, and I have not even approved them. The documents are still there, but I've made them "unreachable". (i.e. if you have the direct hyperlink, you can still access them, but a visitor arriving on the web site can't find them). You must have been really tired when you sent that e-mail yesterday! First, I did notify you of these new documents on Saturday AM (e-mail titled "Draft of modifications on www.semainedelavie.ca", timestamp "sam. 2009-09-05 10:23"). Since most of them were just copy-pasted from last year, and since I had mentioned the debate even earlier than that, I thought it would be a rubber stamp. Had I known you would have freaked out, obviously I would not have proceeded that way! Second, none of those documents was sent (except for the letter for the Mayor you physically signed on paper! I can't "unsend" a paper letter you've already signed off!). I told you I would not send anything before your approval (e-mail titled "Yes, God is great! Ben is still alive!", timestamp "mar. 2009-09-08 10:05") Third, only one not-yet-approved document is signed by you, the letter to the Cardinal. The letter to the police is signed by me, and the debate explicitely says I'm the one responsible for it (you're not mentioned). >> I'm opposed to the principal of having a debate without >> invoking religious convictions or beliefs. I cannot >> simply stand by and not veto. I veto the debate as part >> of the Life Chain in Quebec City. One last desperate attempt to keep you on board: I'm absolutely not asking you to stop being a Christian, or to pretend you're not a Christian during a debate! I'm asserting that some truths are "belt and suspenders truths", i.e. that they are knowable by Faith and by Reason. The fact abortion is evil is knowable by Faith, but also by Reason. The debate just says we need to use our suspenders to hold up that truth. That's all. (Notice also that if we don't proceed that way, a debate is **impossible** with people who don't have Faith, and surprise, pro-choicers don't have Faith...) Anyway, give me a call or e-mail me ASAP. In Christ, Stefan
-----Original Message----- From: Bernard Westerveld Sent: 9 septembre 2009 20:27 To: Stéfan Jetchick Subject: RE: Ben needs some sleep? No, I was not half a sleep, Stefan. I was looking through the Lifechain.net information, and I clicked on the link to our site in Québec. And there I could access the Press Release, letter to the Mayor, the Police email, and the invitation to the debate. I get the same full acces using a Google search. I'm not sure what is going wrong, but these documents need to be removed. I have no authorisation as of yet from the council of elders in my congregation to organise the Life Chain and be its spokesperson. I need to respect their authority over my work. As for the debate, I still veto it as an activity linked to the Life Chain. I don't have time to explain my convictions; but the separation between faith and science is false. Furthermore, I believe that the distribution of these flyers goes against the rules (or at least the spirit of the rules) established by the Life Chain organisation in its manuel discouraging the distribution of material by pro-life groups during the life chain. Thanks, Ben
-----Original Message----- From: Stefan Jetchick Sent: 10 septembre 2009 00:53 To: Bernard Westerveld Subject: two web sites? Hi Ben, >> As for the debate, I still veto it as an activity linked to the >> Life Chain. OK, I tried as hard as I could. So I guess we split up our activities on two web sites, at least for now. I'll take www.proviequebec.ca I'll answer your e-mail at length tomorrow (well, later on today). Now I need to sleep. In Christ, Stefan
-----Original Message----- From: Stefan Jetchick Sent: 10 septembre 2009 12:36 To: Westerveld, Pasteur Bernard Subject: OK, so then you give me no other choice than to implement "Option A" Hello Pastor Bernard >> I was not half asleep, Stefan. You're right! I was the one sleeping at the switch, sorry. >> I could >> access the Press Release, letter to the Mayor, the Police email, >> and the invitation to the debate. I had removed all "entry points" to those texts, but forgotten the "Overview" page which gave a reference to the Press Release, which itself gaves references to everything else. Duh. Marie-Claude found it. But remember it was only a temporary kludge, just to give you one last chance to avoid vetoing the debate. >> I get the same full acces >> using a Google search. Normally Google doesn't index that fast, but I had posted those texts thinking you'd give a red or green light within 24 hours, which is not what happened, as I now know. >> these documents need to be removed. Yes, they have all been removed. Actually, your name has been removed, so you don't need to approve them anymore. >> As for the debate, I still veto it as an activity linked to the >> Life Chain. OK, so then you give me no other choice than to implement "Option A" which I had mentioned in an e-mail (titled "RE: Mélanie's phone number; Morin; Faith & Reason", timestamp 2009-Sept-04 10:21) "I see at least two options: 1) You Veto. You simply refuse to be associated with such a debate. Result: we both continue to promote the pro-life cause, but with separate web sites (you get www.semainedelavie.ca) 2) You Tolerate (not Agree). You refuse to participate in that debate, but you tolerate it. You tell your superiors: "Look, there are Catholics and Non-Catholics on that Committee, so sometimes we have to make compromises. I publicly, on the web site, explain why I, Ben W., do not agree with that debate, but I nevertheless tolerate it, for the greater good of defending the unborn". So we can both continue on the same web site." >> I don't have time to explain my convictions; but the >> separation between faith and science is false. You are misinterpreting my intentions. I'm not asking scientists to be Atheists. See above. The correct relationship between Faith and Reason was exquisitely well-defined and explained long before the Dutch Reformed Church began to exist, by a chap called Saint Thomas Aquinas. It would be nice to have an electronic debate on that topic, just you and me! The members of your congregation would find out why we Catholics really admire Aquinas! (We'll meet on Oct. 1st in a church dedicated to him.) >> I have no authorisation as of yet from the council of >> elders in my congregation to organise the Life Chain and be its >> spokesperson. The Electronic Debate is the first bone of contention between you and me. Your subservience to the people who sign your paycheck is the second. >> I need to respect their authority over my work. They have authority over your work as a Pastor, but this Life Chain stuff is not part of your work as a Pastor. Those "elders" need to butt out of your personal life, in my opinion. >> I believe that the distribution of these flyers goes >> against the rules [...] established by the Life Chain organisation Yes it is, but the intention is to distribute them before the Life Chain. For the past two years, the pro-choicers have arrived long before us, and by the time we arrive, they are already a massed force, with their negative emotions all stirred up. If a cameraman and me showed up long before them, and started handing out these Invitations to the Debate to all pro-choicers, that would calm them down. And if there are violent pro-choicers, they would attack me (and get filmed in the process) before the Life Chain. Kind of like cleaning up the bad pro-choice elements ahead of time! What can these pro-choicers say in front of the camera, while they are being politely invited to a respectful and constructive debate, a debate occuring on the field of Reason rather than Faith? If they refuse, they look stupid and narrow-minded. If they accept, their negative emotions are reduced. In both cases, we win in front of the cameras. In conclusion, I guess we can agree to disagree this year, and have two Life Chains! Like the Red Baron, I'll draw the enemies to my Life Chain, so yours can be peaceful! Hopefully by next year we can patch things up and resume our three-year-long collaboration! In Christ, Stefan Jetchick
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